Coffee, sandwiches, underwear, beer: a day in the life of Japan's konbini
(theguardian.com)107 points by tosh 6 days ago | 75 comments
107 points by tosh 6 days ago | 75 comments
wrp a day ago | root | parent | next |
Japan is known to be generally good at logistics, and you could say there is a software aspect to that. Robotics and machine control are also a traditional strength. My own experience is that their big weakness is interfacing with the user, whether it is red tape at an office or a complex GUI.
Maybe the explanation is that Japanese institutions perform well when development is wholly internal and allowed a long time. My own experience has been that Japanese groups attack tasks with superior organization, but they need extra time to adapt to novel input.
tstrimple a day ago | root | parent |
Speaking to logistical skills I'm reminded of the example of Japan converting a train line to a subway line in three hours. The amount of prep and planning required to pull this off in a live environment is crazy to me.
tokinonagare a day ago | root | parent |
Skill and willingness (to a fault) to pay people to do the job or at least be there is needed. Somehow their floppy+internet+paper_card+human-based health insurance is more efficient than in my country where we have a smart card and shiny website, but it takes 6 weeks to be registered into the system after you send papers. In Japan the same process take about 30min including writing your address 2 times in kanji.
eru a day ago | root | parent | prev | next |
Japan also seems to make pretty decent games, and manages to export them to eager fans around the globe. (Nintendo just being the most visible example.)
FrustratedMonky a day ago | root | parent |
Yeah. Between the parent comment about the software that runs the convenience stores.
And yours, Games. Sony, Nintendo, are we really saying the country that makes PlayStation and Nintendo's is 'bad' at software?
And, Didn't someone in Japan make the Ruby language?
I need to go back to the other post and re-read to find, where is the 'bad' software? How are they categorizing Japanese software as 'bad' compared to any other country? Was it just because US Silicon Valley has had a few bigger startups in general? Is that really a good benchmark?
dmonitor a day ago | root | parent | next |
The benchmark where Japanese software allegedly fails (user experience) rings true especially in their video games. One of the major reasons Xbox was so successful in the mid 00's is because the Japanese companies were far behind on online user experience. Japanese video games tend to have really great gameplay, but the menus and settings are incredibly lacking. Japanese PC ports were all around terrible up until a few years ago. Elden Ring launched on PC without an "exit game" button in the pause menu, for example. Nintendo's settings menus only having one option (rumble on/off) is a running joke at this point.
I think the "design to meet spec, not to anticipate users needs" philosophy is also apparent in the game design. Western RPGs are characterized by their sandbox/do anything capability. Create a character, choose your class, pick your allies, kill any NPC, choose your ending. Japanese RPGs are structured with predefined characters, class roles (with a bit of customization sometimes), narrative, and ending (and maybe a "bad ending" if they want to punish you for not doing all the side quests).
smugma 19 hours ago | root | parent |
Breath of the Wild is much more “do anything.” Exception to prove the rule?
eru a day ago | root | parent | prev | next |
No, no, I can believe that most Japanese software is bad. And also that the average piece of Japanese software is worse than the average piece of eg US software.
ffsm8 a day ago | root | parent | prev |
I mean most Japanese games are known for their stories and character development - with negative remarks wrt the user interface. Also, Sony hasn't been Japanese in ages. It's even a pretty well known point theyre often salty about, because they feel betrayed by Sony for the most part
badpun a day ago | root | parent | prev |
Enterprise software is almost universally pretty terrible, and yet corporate world is running smoothly. That's because, at the end of the day, the quality of life of the users (employees) does not matter that much, they adjust and cope to get their work done.
treflop a day ago | prev | next |
I’ve been to Japan many times now and have sampled a lot of konbini food and have come to realize that a lot of it is just as junky as the food you can find at 7-11 here. The initial novelty was that it was Japanese junk food.
Don’t get me wrong: I will still absolutely f’ up a steak and cheese roller from 7-11 in the states and will continue to eat konbini food when I’m in Japan, but all of it is kind of mediocre. They hit the spot like (American) Denny’s at 2am.
twelve40 21 hours ago | root | parent | next |
> steak and cheese roller from 7-11
I don't think i've ever seen one where i live (san jose), just some sad-looking hot dogs. I think there is just a ton fewer choices in 7-11s here compared to Japan. And mostly really garbage unappetizing dry things like cup ramen (two-three flavors tops), cans, crackers, basically a scant selection of things that can preferably sit on that shelf forever. In the Japanese ones it felt like a ton more choice (even for junk food), and a bit more fresh stuff like onigiri.
helboi4 a day ago | root | parent | prev | next |
I mean no, a tuna onigiri is real tuna in fresh rice. Which is not like hitting all your micronutrients but is just relatively healthy. Similarly you can wash that down with unsweetened green tea (so hard to find outside of japan). Snacks that healthy are hard to come by in western convenience stores. You could also of course go for some sort of milkshake abomination and a famichiki and then maybe you're right. But you have decent amounts of choice.
gwill a day ago | root | parent | prev |
the food i've gotten at konbini in japan is on par with specialty gas stations, such as KwikTrip, Casey's, Wawa or Buc-ees in the US. I don't trust food at my 7-11 at home. in japan they get shipments of fresh food _at least_ daily. Soba, onigiri, sandwiches aren't necessarily junk food but they had plenty of those options as well. The US is only junk food.
returningfory2 a day ago | root | parent | next |
Don't mean to be snarky, but you say:
- Food options in Konbini are similar to Buc-ees in the US
- Food options in Konbini "aren't necessarily junk food"
- The US is only junk food
All three of those can't be true!
samatman a day ago | root | parent |
Japan also has 7-11s, they're in fact the largest brand of konbini.
GP was clearly saying that 7-11 in the US is only junk food, and Japanese konbinis offer food comparable to that of specialty gas stations like Buc-ees.
Which I consider a reasonable assessment of the facts.
hackeraccount a day ago | root | parent | prev |
Buc-ees FTW
langsoul-com a day ago | prev | next |
What makes Konbinis across Asia unique is that it's convenient, cheap and high quality. That's the magic sauce.
Most other places are super expensive or convenient or high quality. But hardly all combined. That's why Asian Konbinis are great. Note this is true of most of Asia, not just Japan.
burglins a day ago | root | parent | next |
Are they cheap, though? I often avoid going to shops the like of GS25, Żabka or 7/11, because the prices are often 125%-150% the normal supermarket price.
wesapien a day ago | root | parent | next |
In the area I stayed in Tokyo, there was a konbini and supermarket across the street from my nearest subway. Food is definitely cheaper, more selection and better quality at the supermarket. I started making notes on Google Maps for any supermarket that I can find along my routes.
smugma 19 hours ago | root | parent | prev |
25-50% markup is rather small, given the convenience. In the US, 100% premium is not unheard of. And Costco may be half the price of the supermarket if you’re willing to buy bulk.
wintermutestwin a day ago | root | parent | prev | next |
They also have clean and free restrooms. My Japan trip was such a pleasure as I was able to walk ~20km a day without ever stressing about needing to pee. Contrast to most US/EU cities where I burn so much time urgently trying to find a bathroom or else I stop hydrating and feel crappy.
dfxm12 a day ago | root | parent | prev | next |
In my experience, that's not unique to just konbinis though. Granted, I've only been to large cities, but cheap, convenient, delicious food is available from many types of stores/vendors/take away/etc.
Maybe it's just the big cities, but I think maybe this part of the world just demands this from anyone selling food. If you aren't providing this quality, you won't stay in business because there's too much competition that is.
yapyap a day ago | root | parent | prev |
Is it also cheap for the average Japanese person? I assume we’re all just chatting away about mostly western standards given that HN is an English platform
saynay a day ago | root | parent | next |
Yeah, fairly cheap. Can grab a sandwich for about the price of metro fare.
ThrowawayTestr a day ago | root | parent | prev |
Lots of English YouTubers have channels dedicated to Japanese food. The prices always make me extremely envious.
homebrewer a day ago | root | parent |
You would be drooling all over with envy if you learned about food prices in my country (not Japan). The problem is, we make 10-15× less than you do¹, so when you actually correct for purchasing power, it turns out that food is much more expensive than in the US. Are you absolutely sure it's not the same in Japan?
1: probably even less than that; last time I seriously checked this was in 2021, and our inflation runs at 20% per year, while income mostly stays the same.
brandall10 a day ago | root | parent | next |
It's definitely a factor... average salary in Japan is slightly more than half the US.
That said, I've been to 25 countries / 40 cities in the past 2 years and Tokyo felt like an anomaly.
Price-wise, it wasn't too dissimilar to Eastern bloc countries where average salary would be yet again half what they are in Japan. You could get a great meal at a decent restaurant for well under 10 euros. Something similar in Manhattan would be over twice the cost. In a place like Bucharest, probably still more and be of worse quality.
And the city itself is highly modern and clean, unlike in those nations. It presents as a place that should be incredibly expensive in many aspects, yet it isn't - ie. the subway system is world class, yet a fraction of what the subway costs in NYC.
Right now I'm in Mexico City, and I've told many folks who live here, to their amazement, that Tokyo is roughly similar in cost for what I call 'middle class' living. In fact, for nicer restaurants, it seems more expensive here compared to similar places in Tokyo. Street food and the like is still a fair bit cheaper here, but when you simply look outside and try to compare them, it is shocking.
krageon a day ago | root | parent | prev |
When you compare it with the prices of other realistic costs (housing, transport, etc) it is significantly cheaper than you'd expect in a country with equivalent costs in those areas.
drumhead a day ago | prev | next |
The UK equivalent of the Japanese Combini isn't really the corner shop, it's the mini version of the supermarket chains, like Tesco express, or Sainsbury Local. The range of goods and quality is much bigger and the quality is as good. They're just not as ubiquitous as a 7-11 or a family mart.
bogdan a day ago | root | parent |
What I like about the uk mini stores is that you have healthy options and I mean balanced foods with veg and clear color coded signage of it's nutrition like salt, saturated fat, calories, 5 a day etc. In Japan kombinis have no fresh veg, any pre made food has nothing fresh or green in it (or very very little) and it's generally more difficult to find fresh things in the big cities that I've been in Japan. Fruit? Same story but a lot more expensive although much tastier but sometimes having an option is better even if it's underpar.
Cthulhu_ a day ago | prev | next |
Convenience stores, corner shops, sandwich shops that also sell groceries, etc are not uniquely Japanese though. I don't understand why there's more articles about convenience store, Japan, but not convenience store, the Netherlands for example, or corner shop, UK.
Coffee, sandwiches, underwear, beer, bike parts, cleaning products, office supplies, toys, birthday gubbins, cake, bed linen: a day in the life of the Netherlands' HEMA: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-7l2Q91Z5nU
walthamstow a day ago | root | parent | next |
Most products in a UK corner shop are of poor quality. I wouldn't touch their sandwiches with a bargepole.
Contrast to Japan where you can get a fresh, good quality, tasty meal from the fridges and the hot cabinet. The 7/11 fruit smoothies are great.
The appropriate comparison to the UK is probably Greggs, and Greggs is still losing that battle.
ndsipa_pomu a day ago | root | parent |
> Most products in a UK corner shop are of poor quality. I wouldn't touch their sandwiches with a bargepole.
Most of the stuff that UK corner shops sell are pre-packaged, so they'd be the same product that you'd buy elsewhere. Also, we've got several corner shops that sell "home-made" Indian foods such as samosas and bhajis that are often higher quality than the packaged ones you buy in supermarkets.
> The appropriate comparison to the UK is probably Greggs, and Greggs is still losing that battle.
Are they losing? I was under the impression that Greggs are still opening up new stores and doing quite well. (Not a customer myself as they don't cater for gluten free)
walthamstow a day ago | root | parent | next |
> Most of the stuff that UK corner shops sell are pre-packaged, so they'd be the same product that you'd buy elsewhere.
Elsewhere where? I have never seen these products anywhere else. The sad-looking chicken tikka sandwiches and bacon that's 90% nitrite-water are corner shop exclusives.
> Are they losing?
Greggs is indeed doing well in the UK but the comparison I'm making is Greggs vs Japanese conbini. Conbini wipe the floor with Greggs.
ndsipa_pomu a day ago | root | parent | next |
> Elsewhere where? I have never seen these products anywhere else. The sad-looking chicken tikka sandwiches and bacon that's 90% nitrite-water are corner shop exclusives.
Probably petrol stations and bargain shops such as B&M. They probably have the same product in slightly different packaging, much like how ordinary supermarkets will share suppliers, but market the same products differently.
walthamstow a day ago | root | parent |
So they're also stocked in other places that sell terrible food?
I think we're agreeing that corner shop food is poor quality. To your initial point, that's why people talk about conbini more than corner shops.
Unless, as you say and I agree, you're lucky to have one that sells nice homemade stuff like samosas (or in my area more likely to be baklava, gozleme etc), but they're rare.
ndsipa_pomu a day ago | root | parent |
Yes, pre-packaged food is often poor quality when the shops are looking for the cheapest providers. That also applies to supermarkets, but they usually have better marketing and so customers think they're getting a much better product than they actually receive.
defrost a day ago | root | parent | prev |
Notably UK Cornershop offer a Brimful of Asha plain or with added Fatboy Slim.
ndsipa_pomu a day ago | root | parent |
Asha Bhosie for the win!
Yeul a day ago | root | parent | prev | next |
I would compare them with AH to go or the smaller city supermarket chain Spar.
One of the nice things of living in a hyper densely populated country is that it becomes economically viable to have supermarkets every few miles. Japan still is vastly superior in the 24 hour economy though. In the Netherlands most supermarkets close at 9 or 10pm.
philistine a day ago | root | parent | prev | next |
Here's a great example of that: Couche-Tard, the biggest québécois dépanneur chain, is in the process of a hostile takeover of 7-11. That's how much money they have, they can afford to buy the worldwide flagship corner store. This has turned into a nightmare for the Japanese, who don't want to see their beloved 7-11 fall in the hands of grubby westerners.
https://globalnews.ca/news/10867357/7-eleven-couche-tard-bid...
piva00 a day ago | root | parent | prev |
On top of that the convenience stores in Sweden (and many other countries) also work as pick-up spots for packages, the concept of porch pirates is absolutely alien to me because of that.
I don't have to care that my package is sitting outside my door, or a delivery courier in a rush threw it haphazardly in the general direction of my house to move quicker to their next drop-off. I just pass by a convenience store nearby and pick it up, they will hold it for me for about 7-10 days so there's not even a rush to do it.
veunes a day ago | prev | next |
It’s impressive how much they offer: from meals, snacks and fresh coffee to bill payment, ATMs, and even clothing basics
Suppafly a day ago | root | parent | next |
Gas stations in the US offer such things too, but it's typically the larger ones attracting interstate traffic, not the little ones in the middle of towns.
davio a day ago | root | parent |
I wonder if there are Japanese blogs dedicated to documenting all of the food choices at Buc-ee's
morkalork a day ago | root | parent |
I'm not American and would absolutely make a point of stopping at a Buc-ee's if I was ever in that part of the US. The internet has kinda made them famous-ish.
Suppafly a day ago | root | parent | next |
Buc-ee's is famous, but I suspect you'd be amazed at the 'regular' truckstop type gas stations we have all over as well. Places like Loves, Pilot, Flying J, most of them have a McDonalds or a Subway attached and have tons of things to buy because long haul truck drivers need to be able to shop. Buc-ee's and Wally's have kind of adapted that concept but for 'normal' people that might be taking road trips and such, but it existed for truck drivers already.
shiroiushi a day ago | root | parent | prev |
You can also buy (or pick up) concert tickets, print out documents (including official government documents), pick up package deliveries, and in some places ship items you sold on Mercari.
KptMarchewa a day ago | root | parent | next |
Steam gift cards are a thing everywhere.
RicoElectrico a day ago | root | parent | prev |
And so you can in Żabka.
criddell a day ago | prev | next |
> spent a penny in its spotless toilets
Now that's an expression I haven't heard in a long time.
satvikpendem a day ago | prev | next |
Fortunately, the American 7-Eleven was bought by and incorporated into the Japanese 7-Eleven (which were two separate companies) and they now said they plan to add more fresh food in the US stores akin to the Japanese version.
throw0101b a day ago | prev | next |
Quebec, Canada-based Couche-Tard is hoping to buy Japan-based 7-Eleven:
* https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/couche-tard-explainer-1.732...
betaby a day ago | root | parent |
Couche-Tard is atrociously bad compared with 7-Eleven:
- expensive - literally any other 'deppaneur' will give a better price
- poor selection of 'food' - it's only carbs, i.e. muffins, croissants. ( no chicken or onigiri or ramens )
- poor selection of beers - mostly cheap brands sold x2, independent deppaneurs sometimes carry craft/micro.
Seems that even Montreal has not enough density to justify any meaningful food in deppaneurs.
I read the title and thought the article was about Japanese gamer culture.
tkgally a day ago | next |
It might be interesting to discuss this article in conjunction with another article that made the HN front page today [1], particularly the comments about how terrible Japanese software is.
I am a long-term resident of Japan, and I would be the last person to defend Japanese software in general. I’ve run into particularly horrible user interfaces on government websites and in some internal systems used by my employer.
But a major element behind the success of Japanese convenience stores seems to be the software that manages the inventory, shelf placement, worker shifts, and many other things. The only time I interface with that software directly is when I buy tickets, use ATMs, or print out documents on the multifunction copy machines. Those interfaces work fine. Considering how smoothly the stores operate, the software behind the scenes must be working pretty well, too.
[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42077886